07.09.06
Gurdjieff comment: a reply
Thanks for your comment. Before pontificating on esotericism, tell me what is you connection with Gurdjieff? You read Ouspensky, and spend your time wishing you could find a fourth way school, but you never found one. As to my knowledge of Gurdjieff, I wouldn’t care to argue the point. I know more about sufism than most people who call themselves sufis, and as a result I stay completely away from the whole business of pious idiots and out and out sharks. Who needs it anymore?
As to Gurdjieff, you can prattle about the ‘work’, but what does it amount to? Self-remembering is one of the most ancient practices, but followers of Gurdjieff never do any because the presentation is so hyped with nonsense noone could manage what was originally a synonym for meditation, which Buddhists insist on day one. Did you ever find Ouspensky types meditating? Gurdjieff didn’t care because he wasn’t in the business of helping people. His dark business is something else.
The problem here is the deception perpetrated by Gurdjieff. He produced an immensely successful brochure that attracts thousands, consistently, but the fact is there is nothing there for them, except cynical promo designed to do nothing but make people tread water as they pay the bills. There is no school, fourth way, or esoteric way behind what is a lot pastiche stiched together like flypaper. Most of Gurdjieff’s teaching is just a bunch of junk, made up on the fly. These people are cynical and exploit beginners, and they never give a sucker an even break. When such people talk about esotericism, the reality is a reserved group to which anyone dumb enough to fall for Ouspensky wouldn’t ever be admitted. You don’t need to be a part of any of that. Forget it. Pure mephistopheles.
But beyond all of that my problem is the crypto-political nature of these reactionaries who are almost at the level of Joseph De Maistre. They are trying to foment a kind of grand postmodern post-democratic culture and will use fascist means to that end. The spiritual teaching is just window dressing.
So I think you comment fails to grapple with the dark side of this man, who, in any case, died a long time ago. What is our business with such a mess of pottage from the age of esoteric fascism at the beginning of the twentieth century? Their great conspiracy totally failed, so let’s be done with it.
Name: Gordy | E-mail: drydocked@verizon.net | IP: 71.254.183.58
Wow. I would compare your understanding of esotericism and the Gurdjieff work to that of an eight year old’s assumptions about sailing based on his experience playing with a boat in a tub. Granted there are spiritual predators out there that utilize Forth Way principals to ensnare but predators are predators. They have no more association with nor understanding of anything Gurdjieff than you appear to have. Forth Way work IS very difficult and requires much discipline. Most people can’t get rich sitting on their ass all day, day after day watching I Love Lucy. Becoming less mechanical and more aware works the same way. As such, You put yourself under the tutelage and guidance of like minded people that have attained something of what we seek. The problem is that spiritual seekers are very vulnerable. Once again, the predator principal. Real work does exist and it can be found. But just because the word “Gurdjieff†may be attached to some means, method or idea does not necessarily mean it is real work or has anything whatsoever to do with real Forth Way work. However, if found, real work does not require blind allegiance. In fact, real work requires personal verification every step of the way and the idea of “enlightenment†seems to evolve into something much more practical.
Posted Jul 9, 10:27 AM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment — Edit Post “Exchange on Gurdjieff†| View Post
robert said,
March 18, 2007 at 8:18 pm
hi all. nice blog. its very ineresting article.
James said,
May 31, 2007 at 8:21 pm
“The problem is that spiritual seekers are very vulnerable.”
I don’t really know what a “spiritual seeker” is, but the problem is that Westerners are conditioned to believe that perennial philosophy bullshit(all paths lead to the summit of the mountain). Look at the classical sutras; they never encouraged people to abandon their discernment and mindlessly accept anything that sounds “spiritual.” The “Becoming less mechanical and more aware” slogan is the same vague nonsense that takes in everybody in the New Age movement.
nemo said,
June 1, 2007 at 6:27 pm
good point
sillykitty said,
June 1, 2007 at 7:15 pm
for gordy…i think it is difficult for many idealistic people who have NOT come out the other side of the gurjieff mill–or any clap-trap cultish milieu–to understand what those of us are saying who HAVE come out that other end. (!)…many people have the discernment to steer clear from square one. (perhaps like james.) others, like myself, due to some inherent foolishness, or wishful thinking, or idealism, to put it more kindly, barge right in and hope to find the ‘meaning’ that these ‘brochures’ promise. i’m not sure exactly where gordy is coming from, (or if he is sincere)) but he sounds to me like the true believer i used to be. from that perspective there wasn’t much that was going to warn me away from the pie in the sky i felt was promised by the 4th way literature. and i was willing to ‘work’ hard and stick around long enough for real damage to be done. to this day (6 years away) i am putting the pieces back together and sorting out what was/is true, and what was/is not. i now feel very much in agreement with nemo’s criticism and very appreciative of his willingness to bash the sacred cow. there really is a smoke and mirrors game at work. what is presented to newbies, in every group i am aware of, is very different from what is going on inside…that magic carrot they lead you around the nose by leads to some very diabolical stuff. i did find myself in a snakepit and bound by some awful eternal-seeming contract i was sure i never signed up for but could not extricate myself from. the dangers of ‘cults’ are common knowledge. see http://www.rickross.com. the problem is that the uninitiated who float around the new-age sufi, buddhist, yoga, shamanism, et al. groups somehow believe that credentials, or antiquity of the teachings mean that there present-day purveyors are above all that.’ that they are as selfless as they proclaim themselves to be, or–that the rules don’t apply. the ends ‘awakening’ will justify the ‘means’–the torture and abuse these groups inflict. the baby (ego) can NOT be thrown away with the bathwater.
(awakening) and by trying to separate the two, by extreme and dishonest measures, causes very real and long lasting breakage. and the fact that broken people make very good slaves can not be overlooked. the warning can not be stated strongly enough.
nemo said,
June 2, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Some good comments, I will reference this on top (June 2, 07)
robert said,
September 23, 2007 at 2:44 pm
hi. nice blog . thanks.
The Gurdjieff Con » Post on Gurdjieff from Darwiniana said,
July 15, 2008 at 7:43 am
[...] http://darwiniana.com/2006/07/09/gurdjieff-comment-a-reply/ [...]
kirk crist said,
July 16, 2008 at 9:14 am
Gurdieff recomends something he calls intentional suffering. All you have to do is just read his books-they are the worse written tomes ever published, and you will get all of the intentional suffering you will ever want
nemo said,
July 16, 2008 at 6:13 pm
You’re right
Here’s a related post at http://www.gurdjieff-con.net
and a post relating to your question:
http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/?p=9
The Gurdjieff Con » Reactionary complots said,
September 16, 2008 at 7:55 am
[...] deceptions. Here is an old post at Darwiniana, a very popular one with a large hit count. 07.09.06 Gurdjieff comment: a reply Posted in New Age at 8:07 pm by nemo Thanks for your comment. Before pontificating on esotericism, [...]