History, Evolution, and the Darwin Debate
The brazen hypocrisy of the hard right elite is remarkable to watch with this Ground Zero nonsense (probably amped out by Fox/Murdoch): they must suspect by now the Bush era conspiracy theories are onto the CIA/Neocon game with 9/11. The hatred fueled against Moslems must be a way to disguise the really deserving objects of anger, Bush, neocons, cia,….
Very popular post from yesterday: http://darwiniana.com/2010/08/16/whats-the-story-with-alternet-on-911/
We have already commented on Conspiracy theories a day or so ago: the thing is to package the JFK and 9/11 CT’s around a bunch of off-the-wall nonsense, apparently to discredit them.
Now Alternet gets into the act: Top 10 Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories
The American radical right has to be considered a strong contender for the title of modern conspiracy champion.
This article adopts the same strategy, this time leaving out the JFK stuff, but with an especially odd bit on 9/11, a real head-scratcher leaving one to wonder at Alternet: 6. 9/11 as Government Plot
It is a bum steer to claim that 9/11 theories are all rightwing.
I am suspicious of Alternet recently, on general grounds (this succeeding prior possibly subjective/unfair suspicions in the change in journalistic style): Barrie Zwicker in Towers of Deception clearly shows Alternet on a chart of phony ‘leftist’ media sources that have funding from foundations, perhaps other darker sources, leading to their suspicous reticence on certain issues, and their lockstep with the strange inability of Chomsky to really live up to their leftist rep. Zwicker’s book is also a good intro to the 9/11 confusion, and to the literature, e.g. the books of David Ray Griffin.
Whatever the case with the behind the scenes Alternet, the thing is to see the strange tactics in this outrageously wrong-headed article, stooping to accuse 9/11 doubters of antisemitism. For that false charge one should immediately be suspicious.
The section here on 9/11 is complete poppycock, and I am left wondering, as with Chomsky, why people good at exposing things are wilfully blind here.
If anyone tries to pull a fast one here refer them to David Ray Griffin’s book on
The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False, my review:
Review at Amazon
The CIA, or whoever, got sloppy, and the traces of covert activity in the collapse of the World Trade Towers is too ridiculously obvious to be dismissed in the style of Alternet?
Is the CIA behind the pay outs documented by Zwicker?
______________________________
6. 9/11 as Government Plot
Read the rest of this entry »
As per previous post: the question of revolution won’t go away, and if even one tenth of the 9/11 truth initiative materials are valid we have grounds for a demand for a new government, one that will abolish the CIA as a first step.
Yeah, yeah, I know, that’s seditious, but you don’t have a government at this point. Yeah, yeah, Obama’s the prez. But you don’t have a dot.gov, really, don’t be absurd and pretend all day long.
Red Alert: when an intelligence agency completely fools you, and they done so for almost fifty years, you have essentially lost your freedom. So you must move to deal with that reality.
Although this book is not as disciplined as those of David Ray Griffin on 9/11, it does shock the varnish off the commentariat and its dismissal of 9/11 theories as ‘conspiracy theories’: 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Fourth Edition [Paperback]
Webster Griffin Tarpley
I cannot make similar endorsements of this author’s other books (e.g. on Obama), except maybe the one of Bush 41.
If this book is not your type, set it aside and consider Griffin’s more restrained and rational analysis. But Tarpley cuts through the bullshit quite nicely, despite some wild pitches. Simple, read all the books in this spectrum.
But get Griffin’s books if there is any doubt here, and consider the desperate situation we find outselves in, if it is true that concealed factions/CIA essentially control the government. All through the liberal attack on Bush 43 over the years, the deeper crisis was not even mentioned.
The connection to the religious right had never occurred to me, as I always assumed that Machiavellian secularists were at work here.
James said,
January 29, 2010 at 5:14 pm ·
Buck is correct in asserting that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions on Israel based on incomplete evidence, but, as Chris Hedges documents, there are some strange forces at work in our society:
Read the rest of this entry »
Looking at: Towers of Deception: The Media Cover-up of 9/11 (Paperback)
~ Barrie Zwicker
This book is a good summary of the 9/11 question, and also an indirect presentation of David Griffin’s views.
More comments on Debunking 9/11 Debunking
We should be wary of getting distracted by the question of Israel, but I find it hard to believe that a complot on 9/11 wouldn’t have been known by Mossad.
But that issue is going to confuse the discussion.
It was also my original feeling, pace Jim Buck’s statement, that there might have been an awareness of a plot forming, with a resulting decision to simply let it happen.
But David Ray Griffin, who also started out with this feeling/hypothesis, came to see that it is refuted by the facts. For example, conspirators coudn’t have manipulated the American air force system, or the world trade center buildings.
Read the rest of this entry »
I am putting this useful comment sequence on a separate post.
Comment sequence on More on Debunking 9/11 Debunking
Jim Buck said,
January 28, 2010 at 11:46 am ·The “official story” is always bogus, not just on 11th September (2001), but on anything. Events like 11/9 are such a shock to the system that the usual “reality managment” is suspended, temporarily.
————————
James said,January 28, 2010 at 1:31 pm ·
True, but I sense something more sinister here. Griffin may be wrong in some of the details (and I think the idea that it was an inside job based on the available evidence is a bit absurd), but it is obvious that the government wasn’t interested in giving anything more than superficial explanations.
——————————–
Jim Buck said,
January 28, 2010 at 2:17 pm ·
Governments everywhere are so accustomed to lying to the people (often in the people’s interest) that they find the habit hard to break–even when it would be the most efficent and simple course to take. I find it touching that Griffin imagines there is a master narrative somewhere (The Truth) which would out, if only it could. My friend died from an asbestos related disease, a few months before 11/9. His employer had always assured him that he was being asked to work only with a “safe” form of asbestos. So I’m not at all shocked about the callous attitude of the authorities towards the rescue workers in Manhattan. I’m ralso ather less than impressed by the “cell phone evidence” Griffin presents. This was published a few weeks after the event: http://connectedplanetonline.com/wireless/ar/wireless_final_contact/
——————
James said,
January 28, 2010 at 2:36 pm ·
“Governments everywhere are so accustomed to lying to the people (often in the people’s interest) that they find the habit hard to break–even when it would be the most efficent and simple course to take.”Obviously, but the issue gets a bit more complex with the US given its preposterous and illogical relationship with Israel and the amount of neo-conservatives in our government. As I’ve said before, the idea that this was planned by people in our government strikes me as ridiculous (I don’t find the theory of telephone fabrications convincing either). My own feeling is that many of the intelligence and investigative agencies knew full well that 9/11 was going to happen and deliberately chose not to prevent it (rather obvious even without Griffin’s work).
——————————–
Jim Buck said,January 28, 2010 at 5:59 pm ·
I’m willing to countenance the thought that (in some quarters) there was an anticipation of a successful attack, by Al Qaeda on US territory, serving to legitimise plans that the Bush government had already in place. I’m disturbed though, James, that you inferr that Israeli interests might have also been a factor. This is the problem with conspiracy theories; they inevitably degenerate into a framing of the usual historical scapegoats. Incidently, the records shows that when an attack on Iran was first mooted, the action was strongly opposed by Israel. It’s true that the Israelis were pressing instead for a campaign against Iran; and Menachem Begin’s government did eventually throw it’s weight behind the Coalition; but, given Israel’s dependency on the US, that was inevitable; and the ensuing (entirely predictable) quagmire has greatly reduced the prospect of an American-backed attack on the Mullahs; and is thus a severe reverse to teh state of Israel.
Comment on Debunking 9/11 Debunking
James said,
January 27, 2010 at 1:04 pm ·
I usually engage in a knee-jerk dismissal of any and all conspiracy theories, but, after taking up your recommendation and reading the relevant books and information on the Internet, I have to admit to being truly shocked. I’m not convinced of Griffin’s theory of an inside job, but I’m now convinced that the official story is bogus:http://www.infowars.com/osama-bin-laden-responsible-for-the-911-attacks-where-is-the-evidence/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15601
1000 architectural and engineering professionals
and 6212 other supporters including A&E students
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
False Flag 911: How Bush, Cheney and the Saudis Created the Post-911 World (Paperback)
~ Philip Marshall
We cited (somewhat cautiously) the work of David Ray Griffin on 9/11 on this blog, as a suggestion for reading.
Here’s a slightly different perspective, from an airline pilot who saw immediately that the standard account made no sense. It is worth reading this interpretation, different from that of Griffin, since it shows clearly that the pilots of 9/11 could not have done what they did with a few hours of training in commercial flying schools.
Since we are on the subject of 9/11 and the books of D.R. Griffin, here is the Amazon link to all his books: David Ray Griffin search link at Amazon
And here is another of his books:
Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory (Paperback)
~ David Ray Griffin
This is relevant to the evolution questions at Darwiniana in a very generalized sense: we are dealing here, however, with ‘paradigm psychology’ rather than ‘conspiracy theories’.
As I have noted already, I can’t vouch for 9/11 conspiracy arguments, but what we can do here is provide some of the bibliographic help to get started, with a recommendation to simply read the evidence.
What is disturbing here is the way that scientific, so-called, defenses of the official account are so obviously bogus! Why???
I can only leave you with that why.
Interesting comment sequence on Priming the war-on-terror pump
I added a 9/11 category also.
This issue is starting to make headway in the general public’s mindset and understanding (I have only to list myself in such a category). Part of the reason is the critical mass of Griffin’s writings, and the steady increase in readers (you know, it takes $ to buy all the books. Many simply don’t read the literature because they can’t afford $100+ at Amazon).
The situation reminds me of the JFK assassination question: books arrive, and you read one, then another, and whatever the case with them (many were wrong) the erosion of the conventional account is slow but steady.
With the 9/11 case this has happened much more rapidly, deja vu all over again.
Jim Buck said, January 10, 2010 at 1:38 pm ·
Some of the videos are undoubtedly fake; some are genuine, though; and I don’t think Rumsfiled et al have what it takes to pull of a “inside job” of such magnitude. This is interesting: http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Tora_Bora_Report.pdf
—————
nemo said, Read the rest of this entry »